Marybrough Results

70M Open
1  Kenneth Vuong  5.00
2  Brendan Ashcroft  4.00
3  Jerome Lugo  6.00
7.68

120 Open Gift
1  Fejiro Omuvwie  3,50
2  Jack Boulton  6.00
3  Rupert Lugo  8.00
12.34

120m Womens
1  Kayla Lemmn  6.25
2  Ilana Grandine  3.50
3  Angela Phillips  14.25
14.25

120m Restricted
1  Myles Medwell  9.50
2  Cooper Shrmabn  6.00
3  Gabriella Boulton  21.50
12.84

120m Masters
1  Julian Fawcett  14.00
2  Rodney Mathews  13.25
3  Angela Phillips  22.50
13.34

200m Open
1  Luke Stevens  3.00
2  Joel Bee  5.00
2  Simon Jackson  13.00
2  Tim Rosen  22.00
21.68  Triple deadheat for 2nd

300m Masters
1  Craig Rollinson  12.00
2  Andrew Drummond  32.00
3  Tom Hecimovic  41.00
36.39

400m Open
1  Jai Perry 29.00
2  Ryan Atkins  19.00
3  Nick Howard  48.00
47.43

400m Womens
1  Hannah Lindstrom  35.00
2  Katherine Katsanevakis  21.00
3  Tayla Philis  24.00
56.31

400m Restricted
1  Michael Dinan  62.00
2  Matthew Standfield  60.00
3  Joshua McCullock  40.00
47.47

800m Open
1  Justin Cohen  94.00
2  Jordan Walker  66.00
3  Lonain Burnett  52.00
1.51.44

1600m Open
1  Michael Preece  105.00
2  Joshua Sait  180.00
3  Stefan Catalano  345.00
4.14.77


1600m Womens/Vets
1  Tony Moran  210.00
2  Rob Irwin  285.00
3  Justin Murphy  35.00
4.30.72

Wow , a triple dead heat for 2nd in the 200m , must have been a cracker.

Catalano extra 25 m more than he had in SA runs 3rd in the 1600m.
Murphy extra 35m in the Over 35 /womans than he had in SA runs 3rd.
WHY WOULD THESE BLOKES WANT TO RUN IN SA

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Wow , a triple dead heat for 2nd in the 200m , must have been a cracker.

Catalano extra 25 m more than he had in SA runs 3rd in the 1600m.
Murphy extra 35m in the Over 35 /womans than he had in SA runs 3rd.
WHY WOULD THESE BLOKES WANT TO RUN IN SA

and single digit handicaps featuring in the open/womens sprints dais, no ridiculous 20m+!!!!

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Wow , a triple dead heat for 2nd in the 200m , must have been a cracker.

Catalano extra 25 m more than he had in SA runs 3rd in the 1600m.
Murphy extra 35m in the Over 35 /womans than he had in SA runs 3rd.
WHY WOULD THESE BLOKES WANT TO RUN IN SA

To support the sport possibly.

To have influence in the sport you need to do more than criticise. Offer solutions, small improvements, think, above all about what is the right thing to do for all in the sport.

A weakened SA is not a good thing for the sport. It won’t help the other states in the long term as the pool of pro runners Aust wide will shrink. Hopefully they can see some sense and make the necessary tweaks to get some confidence back in their product. We all want a strong Bay Sheffield and a strong Burnie. There has to be target races other than Stawell for the sport to flourish.

Fast, the solution is simple, scrap the new system and implement the proven VAL system. Have athletes earn their marks. Not gifted a finals appearance after 3 starts prior.
No spectator wants to see a final with 6 people all off 10m or more in a ‘prestigious’ final.
No spectator wants to see an entire heat of the Bay Sheffield scratch due to all athletes feeling like they are not competitive off their marks.
No spectator wants to see an u18 year old win two open races and win the McHue trophy due to a very generous and inflated mark.

The racing at Maryborough was superb. Some SA runners came across and ran off marks they have earned and deserved. The 200m final was magic to watch and seeing Omuvwie chase down the field from 3.5m was excellent for all spectators.

Marion numbers are going to be so low (in all opens and women’s events) and the people to blame are the league, not the athletes.

Fast wrote:To have influence in the sport you need to do more than criticise. Offer solutions, small improvements, think, above all about what is the right thing to do for all in the sport.

Thank god we have Protrack.
We personally contact the League, they dont listen.
You send in a question about a handicap , not an appeal, and get sent out an invoice for $50
People post comments on facebook and they are deleted.
You dont see motels and caravan parks only showing nice reviews they leave all reviews up for people to see.
Goal psts are moved during a race meeting.
goal posts are moved for some and not others.
Hey Fast get your head out of the sand , I can only guess which of the 3 squads you belong to

Downesy wrote:

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Wow , a triple dead heat for 2nd in the 200m , must have been a cracker.

Catalano extra 25 m more than he had in SA runs 3rd in the 1600m.
Murphy extra 35m in the Over 35 /womans than he had in SA runs 3rd.
WHY WOULD THESE BLOKES WANT TO RUN IN SA

To support the sport possibly.

Hey Downesy, ask your old coach about his mark and no show at the bay? He'll tell you the same as we've all been telling you. You don't support a system that doesn't support you

Steve Buscemi wrote:

Downesy wrote:

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:Wow , a triple dead heat for 2nd in the 200m , must have been a cracker.

Catalano extra 25 m more than he had in SA runs 3rd in the 1600m.
Murphy extra 35m in the Over 35 /womans than he had in SA runs 3rd.
WHY WOULD THESE BLOKES WANT TO RUN IN SA

To support the sport possibly.

Hey Downesy, ask your old coach about his mark and no show at the bay? He'll tell you the same as we've all been telling you. You don't support a system that doesn't support you  

Absolutely no disrespect Steve, but let’s not play the assumption game until we are aware of facts and reasons for people’s decisions, even if they are remotely relevant.

The best way forward is to take the best of both systems. The VAL system would be improved by using the SAAL system to transparently calculate starting and ceiling handicaps with some checks and balances that currently exist in the VAL system.

It always worries me when starting and ceiling handicaps are not transparently disclosed -Without transparency influences, manipulation and vested interests prevail.

What disappoints a lot in the VAL, after a decade or more in, is that there is a refusal to be transparent. Some athletes are made competitive always and from the start and some are made to rot on uncompetitive marks.

The VAL system does not appropriately handicap an athlete that runs a fast time in excellent conditions on a fast track and with a big tailwind - their pro career is all but over in the VAL.

The difficult part of any handicapping system is determining a fair track rating for performances in excellent conditions. Poor performances and Good performances in poor conditions and head winds don’t determine future handicaps.

The sport as a whole is shrinking not just in SA.

Athletes, as they register, should be transparently allotted a handicap base on their data set (past performance weighting’s) in conjunction with the cappings, checks and balance rules applicable to new and junior athletes.

Also excessive improvement to win should be sanctioned.

Biggest load of Spittle Ive ever heard.
You should think about becoming a Politician

RUN LIKE A CHEATAH wrote:

Fast wrote:To have influence in the sport you need to do more than criticise. Offer solutions, small improvements, think, above all about what is the right thing to do for all in the sport.

Thank god we have Protrack.
We personally contact the League, they dont listen.
You send in a question about a handicap , not an appeal, and get sent out an invoice for $50
People post comments on facebook and they are deleted.
You dont see motels and caravan parks only showing nice reviews they leave all reviews up for people to see.
Goal psts are moved during a race meeting.
goal posts are moved for some and not others.
Hey Fast get your head out of the sand , I can only guess which of the 3 squads you belong to

The problem is when you offer assistance and its either rejected or ignored!!! Its not hard for someone at the league to make contact to at least confirm one way or another if assistance is needed when they have undeniably asked for it.

Im sorry but I will not pay to enter a comp that you not only not know what handicap you get and why you got it nor pay to enter when someone gets allocated a handicap that will undeniably give them the win, why would you do it?

The system is a great tool, lets make that perfectly clear, as Paul mentioned it would have been great to have this system in place when he was handicapping. Yes it is an ideal tool but it still requires the roles of handicappers to ensure it is administered correctly, at the moment it is clearly not!

I find it incredibly patronising to be told it is our role to support the league, no sorry it is the role of the SAAL to offer a fair, uncompromised, transparent competition, when they do that then we'll turn up, to be told to pay and turn up regardless is plain wrong and it angers me!!!!!

okay Fast theres a reason why Victoria gets more competitors entering, more spectators showing up, better quality races from quality athletes who train consistently every day for years, who are known around the circuit and creates exciting racing every week, and racing for a lot more money. And its because Vic has as trustworthy system that rewards and encourages athletes to train hard and improve, very rare an athlete gets pulled in between heat and semi because they showed up to race. That is all apart of pro running, and it is what makes it so exiting, to say an athlete should be punished for improving 4 meters like in brookes case, is silly and they do not understand the sport. There were more entries in most if not all gifts (120) in Victoria last year compared to the Bay sheffield. athletes were running 13s in the semi finals, 12.6 wouldn't get you into a semi at Stawell last year. Athletes need to earn their marks and earn their wins through hard training and sacrifice, not by being allocated a ridiculous mark by a computer and being handed a win, just watch the quality of our youngsters drop as they no longer need to train hard, just pull up this week, get big mark next week and then win. However this is great for VAL, now the Youngy trained runners and the other speedsters from SAAL will come down and make VAL/Stawell racing the even more exciting. Im excited to drive the kids down to Keilor/Ballarat/Wang/bendigo/Stawell, cause the racing is going to be fantastic.

Fast don't be Bitter, just train hard and get better.

To Right Bebee

Maryborough was a great spectacle, great track and the positive attitudes making running with the VAL are treat

Far from bitter Bebee, I developed a thick hide many many years ago, just want to see all in our sport flourish. We have runners that have good marks and some that rot and it’s a challenge keeping the later in the sport.

The sport is not flourishing in Vic as you suggest, meetings, prize money, registrations and entries have been declining and continue to do so each year. Athletics as a whole has many challenges. We need to continually refine and improve.

The VAL handicapping is far better than it was 20 years ago but it can be improved and SAAL system offers some improvements - we should all strive for continuous improvement and innovative ways to attract and keep our athletes in our sport.

The SAAL system is in its infancy and is a great tool to advance handicapping especially in times when sourcing handicappers is difficult.

In Victoria, we are a sport of about 400 to 500 athletes hardly reflective of our population there is huge scope for growth.

Btw I'm addicted to training hard, it's in my DNA.

Fast you are not the only one that wants to see all in our sport flourish, however this isn't junior school, there's no participation awards, its a competition and people need to earn their stripes in this sport.

Im not comparing past years in the Val and saying it is flourishing now, I am comparing The Val to the SAAL at the current moment, and it is clear that the VAL is flourishing much more then SAAL. While I agree that the system is a great tool, some of the marks it spat out at bay were ridiculous and we just cant come up with the math to how it came up with these marks. Someone having some influence ? or are people just getting lucky.

You talk about people being left to rot on their marks and struggling to keep them in the sport (sounds like you may be one of them) this new system is going to put half the league on marks to rot, anyone that has put in any hard work over previous ears and ran fast times are done, and people that did not put in that hard work will now flourish, however all their success will be due to the system not themselves and their ability.

I am totally open to changes and improvements on the handicapping but it is clear this new system is a bust and other options/changes need to be discussed.

btw cool join the club, you are not special

I don’t agree with fast about the SA system (I do agree with using data better like he says, but not the way they have), but I’m pretty sure he has not been rotting on his marks as you say bebee You are aware who he is?
And he’s definitely not part of the “3 south Australian squads”
He has disclosed who he is on many occasions.
He Is one of the best coaches and athletes the VAL has ever seen.

I do not know, who are some of his athletes, I am new to this forum stuff Timmy, I have much to catch up on, Im sure his a great coach/runner/guy wish him all the best, just his views on the SAAL system is what I disagree with.

I think we all agree that the SAAL system is a great tool and we all should, therefore, advocate for it to be used as such and advance our sport. Let's work together to improve the system around the software program. The software program is not the problem.

When the current VAL system started many years ago there was the same negative response albeit possibly different people but it has evolved and had gradual take-up by the handicappers and acceptance. But it still has shortcomings and many athletes are left uncompetitive, and this can be improved with the use of the SAAL program, only the ignorant or those that want to protect their vested interest would suggest otherwise.

The SAAL system has solid foundations but is still only as strong as the integrity of the data it receives and runners submit. The same for any system.

The greatest challenge of any handicap system is how good tracks and conditions are rated and how this impacts future handicapping. If this is not addressed then good athletes quickly become uncompetitive and leave the sport.

The other challenge of any system is how excessive improvement to win is treated (usually indicates hidden form or ability)

I also have different views on poor performance and maintain it is not an important area to focus on, as long as it is not rewarded in handicap increases. I would rather see poor performance over non-participation any day. Especially when our sport is struggling for participation numbers.

The old argument that poor performance impacts the integrity of betting is no longer relevant as betting is almost non-existed in modern pro-running and reasonable bookmakers would not bet on poor performance against previous best performance. Bookmakers, however, are burnt if an athlete excessively improves to win( based on their PB), excessive improvement to win ( especially big races) only undermines the integrity of our sport.

I would assume bookmakers would absolutely love a System where punters put their money on a runner off a certain handicap than that runner is moved back .75 between heat and semi.
Imagine the uproar from the Bookmaker if a punter backs a runner, than that runner runs slower than expected and is moved out .75

Especially with no refunds offered for re-handicapping (first time I’ve seen that sign on the bookies tote board)

I love how this conversation about SAAL is continuing under a mispelt "Maryborough results".
When in my view, it should be under another title.

Fast, SA needs to get it together and FAST, (excuse the pun) as technology advances, any business plan adapts to make the business operate more efficiently.
Test & retest before implementing anything first. That could impact the business.

Cross checks & balances. Don't take people's money & not provide a service eg: not respond to enquiries or appeals. Or charge an additional fee, just to dismiss it.

The issue is, the people in the position to make decisions on the future of SAAL and make changes only listen to a select few that have been in this sport a short amount of time. Making rules up as they go, which has indirectly or maybe directly (calm down haters) to benefit a few. We can all see what they are trying to do, but ego and hindsight is blurring the lines here.

Those backmarkers & middle markers are being affected by what is being spat out by the 'system' & now by the looks of it, those group of runners will run elsewhere. And I can't blame them either.. In fact, I think I told ya so.. On here months ago.. To not run SAAL races, save your money or better spent elsewhere (for the athletes enjoyment & wellbeing) until they (SAAL) get it sorted.

I been around a little while, watching, observing, not always posting my views on pro track. This is up until this season of way too many changes, and the knee jerk reactions made by SAAL and the confusing way the changes have been communicated and or implemented. The way the Bay was conducted, officiated and run by contrast to Maryborough (here's my connection piece with the subject heading) was like buying a pair of shoes from KMart (SAAL) employees are young, inexperienced, using the latest software system they know little about, that's constantly being updated and changed, with customers returning their purchases months later, due to poor quality, damaged or faulty, giving feedback only to be ignored and vowing never to return. Resulting in price war with other competitors.

VS
Buying shoes from an establish brand or store with experienced staff, proven systems, open to feedback, make mistakes but fix the problems for future products and look to provide great customer service (VAL, AA, ASA etc) not over react when a customer makes a complaint (by even thinking about banning them or sending them a letter/email).

If a business did this, of course customers would look elsewhere. *reread Youngy's story on the local shoe store posted on here months ago.
Now how many of you runners would buy Kmart shoes over Brand outlet or shoe store??

Rant over, I'm now gonna go bake a cake, fat lady's like cake, think I'm depressed #comfortfood #RIPSAAL

Well put The fat lady! Sounds like Fast is right up there with the commitee. I can see that some commitee members are trying to help but when you are a runner yourself and have access to the system it's just another conflict of interest in the league, creates further problems, and is not in everyone's best interest.

Thanks Amanda, agree with you.
Made some minor grammar errors, got distracted looking up if won anything from the Bay Sheffield raffle, nup.. Am just not connected to the right people. Or maybe I forgot to buy a ticket.. #SAALraffle #SAALLotto #SAALBingo

Would you backward thinking event killing south Aussies please move the discussion somewhere else.

End of the day your system is corrupted and shows no reward for running look at poor floater gets pulled 100m for finishing last haha.
Leave the professional running to us and you can continue to operate your circus.
Btw do you have a comedy festival? Maybe the SAAL could make an appearance?

Youngy must be getting loads of material for his next gig

Fast your system doesn’t work!!!
You have entered data that is not measured the same!

If you have an athlete A who just runs at Santos where times are adjusted due to the wind and let’s athlete A PB is 11.3
You then have Athlete B who’s PB is 11.5 at Santos but he also runs at pros for a few years when you have entered times in your system that wasn’t adjusted for the wind or are hand time or the track wasn’t measured correctly which then has this athlete running at 11.1. This Athlete B is then disadvantage in comparison to athlete A who’s times are more accurate.

Is like a pharmaceutical company measuring how effective their pills are on patients. If they didn’t tell the patients when to take them, some take them before food, some after you are going to get different results and the data isn’t going to work.

Please read my posts again. Your question is the same for any system.

The SAAL program is simply an advanced upgrade of the current VAL system. It would take the VAL to the next level and offer an opportunity to be transparent. Advanced use of data and transparency is the right thing to do!

It's all about how the data is sourced and used and handicaps disclosed using the data.

How would you adjust for the track, and how would you adjust for the wind? With the technology and programming available in 2020! …This is the main challenge for handicappers along with how excessive improvement to win is dealt with.

Excessive improvement to win usually means an athlete has been hiding their form and ability. Should this be tolerated? …as this will undermine the integrity of any system!

Btw it's not my system!

Its not Fast, I’m sure the VAl isn’t using date that is measured differently. If the SAAL has entered past runs with no wind adjustments and then have entered data from Santos that is, then you have unfairness in the data. If the SAAL system worked, then why did a 14 year old win two bay women’s sashes in her first season and athlete of the meet. I pity all those athletes who have been running for decades and still haven’t got their bay sash.